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Author Topic: My favorite argument  (Read 661 times)

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plainwhitetom

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My favorite argument
« on: April 29, 2009, 01:35:48 PM »

The question is simply this...

Which do you believe to be true and why?

Does existence proceed essence?
            OR
Does essence proceed existence?

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DIST0RTI0N

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2009, 07:21:28 PM »

Quote
The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something.
The most important ingredient; the crucial element.
The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things.
An extract that has the fundamental properties of a substance in concentrated form.
Such an extract in a solution of alcohol.
A perfume or scent.
One that has or shows an abundance of a quality as if highly concentrated: a neighbor who is the essence of hospitality.
Something that exists, especially a spiritual or incorporeal entity.

Text book definition of essence ^ 

Going by that definition... Existence would precede essence.

You cannot have characteristics, properties, or classes, unless something first exists to give characteristics to, properties to define, or classes to separate.


Even the last definition of essence :
Quote
Something that exists, especially a spiritual or incorporeal entity.
Shows that existence is a prerequisite of essence.
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plainwhitetom

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2009, 07:34:19 PM »

i think i was more asking for opinions...

Some people believe that the soul supersedes everything else...that its eternal.  Just wanted to know what the great minds of this forum had to say about it.  Not so much what, a text book definition is.

However I concur :)
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kai

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2009, 07:39:21 PM »

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plainwhitetom

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 07:41:38 PM »

guess I'm lame, just wanted some open convo going on it.

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roxy

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 07:54:37 PM »

To PWT's credit, existence and essence have very clear cut technical definitions in this context and no defining is usually necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence

I don't have an opinion on this topic.
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birdage

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2009, 12:45:21 AM »

I'm obsessed with circles when it comes to things like this. I even sometimes consider time to be circular. The beginning and the end form a circle for me in my mind. So I don't really do the chicken or the egg type deals of which comes first... thinking like that makes time linear. But I don't know. I don't know anything for sure. I'm a slight romantic so I go for an immortal soul existing outside the boundaries of a straight line. Also on a side note I locked in my bet with Christianity and hope that turns out cool when I peace out.   
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Zero

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 07:44:38 AM »

I thought the argument was going to be politics or religion. That always gets people going.
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LiquidWave32

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 09:54:33 AM »

I had a similar question in junior year that bugged me:

How do we know whether or not reality is truly reality and not illusion? If all reality is just illusion, you can't prove it because if you have some sort of physical or logical evidence to prove that ALL reality is illusion, that evidence also proves that there is a reality in which evidence can exist, but if you find proof that the concept of reality is truly existent, that proof can just be dismissed as part of the illusion.

The nihilistic idea of reality is sort of a constant paradox.

My theory/current factology that I've been toying with:

Physical reality is nothing more than a constant series of illusion layed on top of eachother and aside one another. Think about it, if you are religious and spiritual, like me, you probably believe that the the concept and very core of all physical matter is a creation of some sort of spirit and/or god(s). Hence you believe that physical matter is a creation of somebody or something else's own mind and imagination, i.e. an illusion. Some spiritual being is constantly creating and manifesting physical creations spontaneously from its imagination by merely saying "Be." We as human illusions do the same by taking other pieces of the illusionary puzzle and using them to make our own creations by layering them on top of eachother and creating all new never before seen illusionary puzzles and pieces. Physical reality is made up of constant illusions from other beings' imagination, whereas spiritual reality is the energy behind all the illusions and the source from which the imagination gains its power to make more illusions. Just an idea I've been trying to sort out. I think there are parts where I should more clear on the differentiation between spiritual reality and physical reality.
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roxy

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Re: My favorite argument
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 11:04:40 AM »

How do we know whether or not reality is truly reality and not illusion? If all reality is just illusion, you can't prove it because if you have some sort of physical or logical evidence to prove that ALL reality is illusion, that evidence also proves that there is a reality in which evidence can exist, but if you find proof that the concept of reality is truly existent, that proof can just be dismissed as part of the illusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum

Also, your concepts of reality and illusion are conflated.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 11:05:48 AM by roxy »
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